An interview with Catherine L. Hughes by Anita S. Lane
Cathy Hughes is the Founder and Chairperson of the nation's seventh largest radio broadcasting company and the largest African-American owned radio broadcasting company in the country. Founded in 1980, Radio One owns and/or operates 71 radio stations located in 22 urban markets in the United States and reaches more than 13 million listeners every week. Radio One also owns approximately 36% the TV One cable/satellite network.
A dynamic personality and savvy business woman, Catherine Hughes has worked in various capacities for Radio One including President, General Manager, General Sales Manager and talk show host.
Ms. Hughes is the first African American woman to head a firm publicly traded on a stock exchange in the United States.
She is the mother of one son, Alfred Liggins, the CEO, President and Treasurer of Radio One.
Click "Play" to listen to the Audio version of this interview...
KFF: Ms. Hughes, thank you so much for joining us today. I'm so very honored to have you with us.
MS. HUGHES: Thank you.
KFF: You're welcome. And congratulations on Radio One's 25th Anniversary!
MS. HUGHES: Thank you very much.
KFF: You're welcome. You have such an incredible life story. You've accomplished so much and yet you began just like the rest of us, no silver spoon, no inheritance, and you've created a groundbreaking career both as a woman and as a Black woman. What would you say has been the key to your success?
MS. HUGHES: A belief in God, first. Prayer is what really brought me to this point. I don't see the things that I'm blessed to receive awards for or recognition for, I don't see it as being me at all. I'm just thankful that God used me as a vehicle, as a vessel to reach the African American community, and hopefully the information that we disseminate will somehow, some way assist in our empowerment.
Because, as quiet as it's kept, the African American community is still struggling with and progressing towards liberation. We still are not on a level playing field. We still are not afforded the opportunities that we have earned and so rightfully deserve in the United States, and so we see ourselves as that voice of Black America that identifies that which is best for our community.
KFF: Well, I'm so grateful for what you do and that's exactly what you all have accomplished with Radio One and TV One, which is really exciting.
I want to know when you became pregnant with your son at age 16, your mother demanded that you make your own way, where did you go?
MS. HUGHES: I was given the choice of either having an abortion or going out on my own. She said if you're deciding to keep the child, then you are deciding in fact that you are an adult and adults must provide for themselves and fend for themselves. And so I moved out and got my own apartment and convinced the father of my son to marry me.
Back in those days it was a big thing for a baby to have his daddy's name. In this day and time it's "That's my baby's daddy" or
"My baby's momma," but back in those days it was very important, even if you did not marry the child's father, that the child at least carry the name of his father. And I was very successful in convincing my son's father to marry me and we stayed together for 14 months.
KFF: Now, did you know you wanted a career in radio when you landed your first job?
MS. HUGHES: Absolutely. I knew that I wanted a career in radio when I was 8 years old and we were living in the public housing projects. There were six of us in the house—sometimes seven when my uncle would come to visit, and I would tie up the bathroom in the morning pretending my toothbrush was a microphone and I would be standing in front of the mirror giving news casts and announcing records and events in the community.
KFF: That's amazing. Now, you and your second husband purchased your first radio stationtogether in 1979?
MS. HUGHES: Yes.
KFF: But it wasn't as easy as simply writing a check. You were denied by 32 banks before being approved?
MS. HUGHES: Yes, before a woman banker at Chemical Bank of New York. It was a woman banker and my 33rd presentation. It was her first week on the job and she
loaned me a million dollars.
KFF: Wow, that is phenomenal. Over how many months or years did those 32 rejections span?
MS. HUGHES: Oh, about two and a half.
KFF: Two and a half years…
MS. HUGHES: About two and a half years from start to finish. Not just the rejections, but also preparation of the business plan, and the FCC filings. The whole process from start to finish was about two and a half years to secure ownership of our first radio station which was WOL in Washington, D.C.
KFF: WOL—
MS. HUGHES: Yes, any station that went on the air before 1924—and WOL happened to have gone on the air in 1922—was before the FCC came into existence. When it did, the first thing the Federal Communications did was pass legislation that said all radio and television stations had to have four call letters. Those west of the Mississippi River would start with the letter K and those east of the Mississippi River would start with the letter W, except for those stations which were already on the air. So around the country there are a sprinkling of radio and television stations that only have three call letters, and that means they were in existence before the Federal Communications Commission came into existence. So WOL was our first station. It was a heritage station. It had been on the air since 1922 in the nation's capital.
WOL actually were the initials of the first white owner of the station, and so coming in as the first African American owner of the station, I didn't want to use the previous owner's initials as my call letters. I kept the call letters because they were heritage call letters,but I changed the meaning from it being the initials for his name to "WOL" signifying "We Offer Love." And that became the slogan for my station.
We also took the music off and put on the first 24-hour news talk format that Black America had ever had. And I'm proud to say that on January 30th, 2006, twenty-five and a half years later, we launched the first news talk format from an African American perspective that's ever been launched in this country. It's on thirty stations already, of which only six are Radio One properties, and we feature a local morning show and then we go into a full air shift with Dr. Michael Eric Dyson, and then Dr. Michael Eric Dyson is followed every day with a full show complement from Reverend Al Sharpton, and then Reverend Al Sharpton is followed with a full sports talk show that's hosted by two brothers. They are the Stewart brothers. They're blood brothers and they call themselves "The Two Live Stews." And Sports Illustrated Magazine has said they are among the top five sports talk show in the United States of America. And we're going to add to that until we are actually a full 24-hour, 7 day a week component.
But from the start of a 1,000 watt news talk format in Washington, D.C. in 1980 to the January 30th, 2006 launch of the first syndicated news talk format in the country from a Black perspective has been my dream fulfilled, because the dissemination of information I think is the most important responsibility of a broadcaster.
KFF: That's fantastic. And I know it's your dream. When it launched I thought, “Oh, she finally gets her 24-hour news and talk!”
MS. HUGHES: Right, throughout the entire country. God is so good. You just have to be patient. Twenty-five and a half years it took me to arrive at my destination.
KFF: That's wonderful. I was listening that very first day and I heard Michael Dyson's show and I thought it was great. So hopefully there will be room for someone like me further down the line.
MS. HUGHES: All right!
KFF: I have to ask you, because it wasn't long after you and your husband purchased your first radio station that you divorced. How difficult was it for you having just embarked upon this venture together, to then divorce?
MS. HUGHES: Well, the venture together was basically his opportunity. He had worked in the station, but he really had no interest in radio any longer. He had transitioned from radio into television, and he had 14 local Emmys. Television was really his preference for employment, career aspirations, and entertainment. He really wasn't a radio person; however, there would have been no way possible for me to get the nod to buy the station were it not for him, because he had worked at that station.
The owner of the station—the man who was selling it really
had a strong dislike for me because I had been successful in reprogramming the Howard University station, WHUR. The advent of FM had occurred, and we had really demolished the ratings and the structure of his radio station WOL, so the owner didn't like me and definitely was not interested in selling me his property, but was crazy about my husband and felt that he owed him a favor. Many years before, Dewey helped this gentleman—his name was Igmont Saunderling— save his license from another FCC challenge, and so he felt he owed Dewey something. His only stipulation was: “Can you get the money?”
Well, that's where I came in. I was the one that structured the deal, went and got the money. Dewey was the one that went and got the opportunity. Because of limited financial resources, he and I both had to work in the radio station, but it was not his preference. And it was a friendly divorce because he wanted to go back to television and the entertainment industry and he wanted to relocate to Los Angeles. I wanted to stay and see could I make a go of WOL. So that's precisely what happened.
You know, stories are written that I bought him out. I did
not buy him out. He just gave me his interest in the station because he had no interest or obligation tying him to the station. He wanted to go to California and we did not want a long-range marriage, so we decided that a divorce would be the best thing for both of us. We are friends to this day and he still works for me and with me.
KFF: Now to the early 80's—you're a single mother and owner of a radio station. For many us we would just be operating in survival mode.
MS. HUGHES: I was in survival mode for almost a whole decade. Not for "most of us," me too. That's all I was in—survival mode.
KFF: Well, where did the idea originate to purchase additional radio stations and how did you raise the funding?
MS. HUGHES: I didn't have a choice. I turned the corner in my 7th year. I mean, we're catching hell right now in Los Angeles because we just have the one station, "The Beat." Since 1996, it's almost impossible for a stand-alone facility to exist, particularly in a major market. You've got to have at least an AM and FM combination. You've got to have at least two stations in a particular market, because if not, you may have the best format, you may even have the most popular station in that market, but when it comes time for advertisers to buy time, they get a better deal if they're buying two, three, four, or five stations in a city from the same person as opposed to buying one. You may in fact have to charge as much for that one station as your competitor can charge for four stations and split the revenue, you know, among four different communications outlets.
And remember, what we sell is frequency. Radio is the
frequency medium. So the more commercials you get – the example I give to people who may not understand what “frequency medium” means, I said have you ever hated a song but they played it on the radio so much that one day you're driving down the street and you find yourself singing that song? And you know you don't like that song, but the reason you're singing it is because radio is the frequency medium and because it has been played so much in your head you now still may say that you don't like it, but guess what, you not only like it, you love it. That's why you're singing it as you drive down the street.
KFF: That's incredible.
MS. HUGHES: All right, that's how we work. So you come in to an
advertiser and you say "Listen, I'm going to give you four times that
which my competitor who only has one station can give you. You're going to have four times the frequency. They can only give you one spot on one station, I can give you one spot on four stations." That's four times one. Who wins?
KFF: Right. So it's definitely a necessary business decision, then?
MS. HUGHES: Exactly.
KFF: I can only imagine how busy you were as a single mom and growing media mogul. How did you keep family first, as well as caring for yourself?
MS. HUGHES: Family has always been first—no, family has always been second. God has always been first. And when you put God first and your family second, you can't lose because that's how God created the universe. And you must get into a natural pattern with the universe.
When people ask me what's my greatest accomplishment, what's my greatest blessing? I don't blink. My greatest accomplishment was having my son at 17 years old and being able to rear him into a productive, loving, caring, healthy adult. He's now 41 years old, he runs the company. That was my greatest blessing and challenge, because he was always my top priority. I worked. I went into business so that my son didn't become a statistic. I didn't want my son having to live next door to a crack house. I didn't want my son living or going to school where they didn't have books or pencils.
Now I say all that, but understand I've always, always
lived in the heart of the hood in every city I've ever lived in. I grew
up in the projects in Omaha. When I moved here I then and still live
right up in the heart of the hood. My son went from kindergarten to the 12 grade in the D.C. Public School System. So I'm not talking about private schools and I'm not talking about living in the suburbs, I'm talking about affording for yourself and creating a peaceful, safe
environment with a good productive school system within the confines of a major metropolitan area.
And I'm not the only person who thinks like that. So you find other people who think like you and all of you go up to that school every week and you make certain that those teachers are qualified and you make sure that those teachers are teaching the way they should, and you organize community patrols. And you may even be up in the middle of a dangerous drug area, but guess what, it doesn't happen on your block because on your block you have organized and you have strategized and you have a safe haven. And that's how my son and I have lived. He grew up in the heart of Washington, D.C. and went to the D.C. Public Schools all of his life. He just built a new house three years ago and guess where itis: In the heart of Washington, D.C.
KFF: That's awesome. What is your passion?
MS. HUGHES: People. And particularly, African American people, but I love people. My passion is God and all of nature. I love nature. I have an organic garden, I fish, I grow flowers, I commune.
My passion is reading. There's so many passions. One of the things that keeps me in love with God and fascinated. The wonders of God, the wonders of creation. Every single solitary day is a different day. The tree now has buds, the tree will have leaves soon. The frozen stream now is beginning to have trickles of water, but in the winter it's ice. Everything changes before your very eyes. God is so wondrous and so great that even when I'm having a challenging difficult day that most people would say, "Woe is me," I can just take a look at nature and feel energized, because I don't have one passion.
I guess the best way to describe me is I have a passion for
life. I love the process called life that God has blessed us with. And
I, you know, just hope that I'm blessed for many, many, many years more of participating in it.
KFF: What do you want your legacy to be?
MS. HUGHES: That I helped somebody. That I did in fact make a difference and that I traveled the path less traveled and I forged a way for other individuals—particularly women and people of color—to travel, and that it wasn't all about me, it was all about family.
Because even though we have a small immediate family, we
call our staff our extended family and we call our listeners to Radio One and our viewers to TV One our extended family. My whole concept since day one has been based on the Japanese model which is it is a democratic process in my company where individuals are part of the family structure, and even though the elders have the ultimate responsibility and authority for making the right decisions for governing the family, everybody gets some input, because they are that important to the integral structure of the family. So we call ourselves "The Radio One family." We're proud of that.
The first year I went public, the press went wild at our
first annual stockholders meeting because that's how we greeted our
stockholders, as new family members, and we opened our meeting with a prayer. The press was like: “We ain't never been to a public stockholders meeting where they prayed and called the stockholders family.”
KFF: Well, this is a new day.
MS. HUGHES: Exactly.
KFF: Speaking of the Radio One Family, there is a lot of talk going around that you plan to sell Radio One and TV One, and a lot of black people are not happy about that, yet, of course, it's your decision to make. Do you care to comment?
MS. HUGHES: It's so funny, because someone said that to me. That's just somebody crazy on the Internet starting rumors. No, we're not entertaining any idea to sell anything. We're looking to buy.
KFF: Very likely there's a woman reading or listening to this interview
who is endeavoring to make her mark in business. She may even be a single mom, as you were. What words of encouragement would you give to her?
MS. HUGHES: Don't let anything discourage you. Just make up your mind and do it. Black women for centuries have been just making up their minds. We made up our minds saying we weren't going to be slaves anymore and we produced a Harriet Tubman and a Sojourner Truth. When we make up our minds, you know, we made up our mind that we were going to be in elected politics and we produced an Alexis Herman who helped Ron Brown structure the democratic party.
We made up our minds that we were going to form a women's organization and be an empowerment vessel and vehicle for black women, and we produced a Mary McLeod Bethune who then produced a Dr. Dorothy Height who at 94 years old, she just celebrated her birthday yesterday, is still leading the National Council of Negro Women.
So I say to a sister who wants to go in business, just make
up your mind. And, as the Nike commercial says, "Just Do It!"
KFF: What's next for Cathy Hughes?
MS. HUGHES: I'm learning TV. This TV One venture is a new venture for us. I'm real excited that at 58 years old I'm being afforded the opportunity to learn a whole new medium, and I'm very fascinated by the cable industry.
KFF: Wonderful. Mrs. Hughes, thank you so much.
MS. HUGHES: You're welcome. God bless, and thank you for including me.
